Being a PRC's guarantor

[dirtymonk82]

One of my bro got quite close to a PRC whom is doing FL massage. Than recently that gal ask my fren to help her fren by becoming her guarantor when she come to spore.

Just want to find out from bros here are there any implication(s) if we become the guarantor of a PRC whom is coming over here to work as a FL either as a massager or massager with FJ?

Thanks

[ahpaul25]

Forget it man....Did the prc pay yr frd? or out of goodwill?

[dirtymonk82]

Forget it man....Did the prc pay yr frd? or out of goodwill?

Shd be out of goodwill bahz

[Mrxhub]

Shd be out of goodwill bahz

Wa.....got free xxxx weekly bo.....ask yr frd don waste time lah....If that PRC kenna caught, yr frd will be blacklisted in ICA....:cool: Understand!

[naemlo]

Just want to find out from bros here are there any implication(s) if we become the guarantor of a PRC whom is coming over here to work as a FL either as a massager or massager with FJ?


If she is kena caught doing illegal stuff, he will lose the deposit n his name is blacklisted in ICA.

[dexblu]

Shd be out of goodwill bahz

My friend...

Being a guarantor is never a good thing... with the exception of being a guarantor to a very close friend (whom you FULLY trust and understand), a family member or sibling.

There are many implications... especially if the person whom your friend intends to be a guarantor is engaged in a questionable trade. Just pick up the form and read before you commit.

Have A GREAT New Year !! :D

[<<<SUCHINDA>>>]

if nothing happns then ok....something happens then you be in deep shit.....not onli blacklisted so simple....if they can prove you involve maybe charge you as agent or okt etc etc......

[Dancing]

My friend...

Being a guarantor is never a good thing... with the exception of being a guarantor to a very close friend (whom you FULLY trust and understand), a family member or sibling.

There are many implications... especially if the person whom your friend intends to be a guarantor is engaged in a questionable trade. Just pick up the form and read before you commit.

Have A GREAT New Year !! :D

Bro, don mind but i don agree wif u 100%. My personal opinion is Being a guarantor is never a good thing... Including being a guarantor to a very close friend (whom you FULLY trust and understand), a family member or sibling.:D
Just my own opinion.

[BMW520_M]

Wa.....got free xxxx weekly bo.....ask yr frd don waste time lah....If that PRC kenna caught, yr frd will be blacklisted in ICA....:cool: Understand!

Its will also include a 5K guarantee and will loose it if the gal get into trouble with gov authorities. Not worth leh......

[dap26]

Dun risk..So many factors to think...Think twice before doing it.

[xiaomaomi]

if yr friend really want to get into the good look of tat girl, he can try. but in the relationship column of the application form, once he list down the relationship with the applicant as friend, possibility of getting approval is like striking 4D.

[carmeo88]

The bros here say it all, no pt getting into a deep hole where current status so peaceful.:)

[AAconnection]

Sammyboy is good place to get suggestion and information if one needed to know thing about relation, sex, boy girl relation just ask the right question and you have many brother with experiences to answer you. The unwise thing to do is to be a Guarantor.

[<<<SUCHINDA>>>]

Sammyboy is good place to get suggestion and information if one needed to know thing about relation, sex, boy girl relation just ask the right question and you have many brother with experiences to answer you. The unwise thing to do is to be a Guarantor.
you said it bro.....always remember

"A smart man learns from his mistakes, a smarter man learns from other's mistakes"

[Jkin]

Assuming that she will "thank" your friend, it is merely a few hundred dollars worth of free bonks. Don't forget anything happen, you will be the one in Singapore facing it, not the girl who will be deported back home. Will you put your entire life at risk for a few hundred dollars?

[sammyboyfor]

Just want to find out from bros here are there any implication(s) if we become the guarantor of a PRC whom is coming over here to work as a FL either as a massager or massager with FJ?

Thanks

Why would anyone in his right mind want to be guarantor for a freakin' PROSTITUTE???? :rolleyes:

[Cytan7]

yeah, i agree. It is too dangerous to do such a thing, not worth it.

[TKee]

Not advisable to be her guarantor as she may be to be a FL if caught your friend needs to asst in investigation which is very troublesome:rolleyes:

[Ultraviolet]

I agree with the senior bros here. Not worth the risk to be a guarantor. She do the crime, and you do the time.

[ahpaul25]

Wa.....got free xxxx weekly bo.....ask yr frd don waste time lah....If that PRC kenna caught, yr frd will be blacklisted in ICA....:cool: Understand!

What Mrxhub mention is correct....yr frd will be blacklisted once that lady kenna caught, that's all....:)

[dirtymonk82]

What Mrxhub mention is correct....yr frd will be blacklisted once that lady kenna caught, that's all....:)

So he actually need to put 5K as deposit, that being quite risky shd something goes wrong.

If he kanna blacklisted, what will be the consequences of being blacklisted by ICA??

[Zulu23]

So he actually need to put 5K as deposit, that being quite risky shd something goes wrong.

If he kanna blacklisted, what will be the consequences of being blacklisted by ICA??

Good luck to your friend then....

[ahpaul25]

So he actually need to put 5K as deposit, that being quite risky shd something goes wrong.

If he kanna blacklisted, what will be the consequences of being blacklisted by ICA??

No need to place deposit........just blacklisted, next time if he wish to bring oversea ppls down again....it banned for LIFE.

[Zero-Hero]

No need to place deposit........just blacklisted, next time if he wish to bring oversea ppls down again....it banned for LIFE.

Getting blacklisted by one government agency usually has repercussions across the other agencies as well. Am I right ?

[jon2000sg]

Why would anyone in his right mind want to be guarantor for a freakin' PROSTITUTE???? :rolleyes:

a guarantor can get free fucks ! :p

[conjurer]

I think it is not worth it at all. Not even for the free fucks.

[Zero-Hero]

a guarantor can get free fucks ! :p

Not sure of free fucks, but sure will get fucked for free though :p. Sorry, just joking.

[<<<SUCHINDA>>>]

a guarantor can get free fucks ! :pFor the risks that are involved....i would say it is an expensive fuck instead;)

[DodgeViper]

Nah bro, dont trouble trouble when trouble dont trouble you! :p

[79Guards]

For the risks that are involved....i would say it is an expensive fuck instead;)

Yeah veri expensive, my friend have wife and 2 kids before but because of the PRC gal he know in KTV, kenna shock by her and leave the family. Now he have nothing, only left with mthly maint. fees to family and the gal leave him when find out he have not enough money to support her.:(

[sohbuckkong]

No need to place deposit........just blacklisted, next time if he wish to bring oversea ppls down again....it banned for LIFE.

Agreed with Paul, no need to place any deposit. The right word is "sponsor" instead of "guarantor". My lady china friend also want me to be sponsor for her china friends, I then got the forms from ICA, I have read the forms and it says that if deported, i am responsible for the repartriation cost.

The going market rate for sponsoring is about SGD$3k. This is the amount paid by those china gals to those sponsoring agents.

[wanmalay]

Too risky. Not worth it.

[RTplayer]

Only you can say its expensive or not.


For the risks that are involved....i would say it is an expensive fuck instead

[<<<SUCHINDA>>>]

Agreed with Paul, no need to place any deposit. The right word is "sponsor" instead of "guarantor". My lady china friend also want me to be sponsor for her china friends, I then got the forms from ICA, I have read the forms and it says that if deported, i am responsible for the repartriation cost.

The going market rate for sponsoring is about SGD$3k. This is the amount paid by those china gals to those sponsoring agents.
Correct bro, any singapore citizen above 21 can liao (not blacklisted b4).....bro your rate 3K is monthly? that's a bit ex

[RTplayer]

Only you know can decide what is expensive.

Correct bro, any singapore citizen above 21 can liao (not blacklisted b4).....bro your rate 3K is monthly? that's a bit ex

[kiko]

My answer is never be a guarantor for a vietnam , pino or PRC's guarantor unless u are that person 's best friend. And you understand the person well. And also unless the person's intension is to study a degree and nothing else.
Some schools in singapore if realise their students work outside , will report the matter to ICA , their student pass will be cancel , and be send back to china

[ahpaul25]

The going market rate for sponsoring is about SGD$3k. This is the amount paid by those china gals to those sponsoring agents.
Too risky. Not worth it.

It not worth at all...what happen the gal kenna caught and wish to cont. her overstay here.....U will be a dead meat plus if the gal happen in any accident, u be called up by ICA, then later POLICE. :)

[otamay]

a guarantor can get free fucks ! :p

LOL :D...even get free fucks is not worth the hassle. Definitely she will be involved in illegal activities such as FL, massaging since they are on social visit pass which means cannot WORK here. Whatever crime the gal commits will be linked back to the guarantor.

ICA and other government agencies will come knocking the guarantor house, just to embrassess you especially if you are a married person. So on the surface looks like free fucks but in the end, its more costly....:mad:

Remember, there is a price for everything. Avoid at all cost if possible even if your friend may have the slip of tongue or under pressure committed himself.

[louis2002]

Being a guarantor for another person involves certain risk....

It depends on individual how trust worthy is that guy.....

Let it be PRC, Vietnamese, Thais bla bla.....

Not everyone is bad but also not everyone can be trusted.....

My 2 cents worth.....

[sohbuckkong]

Correct bro, any singapore citizen above 21 can liao (not blacklisted b4).....bro your rate 3K is monthly? that's a bit ex

3k is a one time payment paid by these china gals for the entry visa which normally lasted for 2 yrs. Ive ask a lot of china gals and all of them told me they paid 2.7k to the agents for finding a sponsor. Without a sponsor, they cannot come to singapore so it looks like there are great demand for sponsors. Being a sponsor, you are responsible for the repartriation cost and any person caught putting false info in the application forms can be prosecuted, so I just wonder if immigration will approve sponsors who are just friends with the applicants.

[Sboobs_lover]

Some PRC girls need to place deposit first but some do not need. Those who need to place the deposit they are in thousands and if the girl get caught or overstayed u can kiss goodbye to ur $$$ n ur name is blacklisted in ICA.
If u dun need to place deposit then if the girl get caught, then u only get blacklisted.

Sponsoring is a serious matter if the girl is FL or WL. Anyway if u wan to sponsor, normally the price for those who dun need to pay deposit is $800 - $1000 for social visit, normally a month.

[Rof|maoxz]

Sponsoring is a serious matter if the girl is FL or WL. Anyway if u wan to sponsor, normally the price for those who dun need to pay deposit is $800 - $1000 for social visit, normally a month.

Speaking from your experience? :p

[<<<SUCHINDA>>>]

Speaking from your experience? :p

Then why dun you share your experience too? think everyone forgot your smelly deeds liao active in SBF again? :rolleyes:

[<<<SUCHINDA>>>]

3k is a one time payment paid by these china gals for the entry visa which normally lasted for 2 yrs. Ive ask a lot of china gals and all of them told me they paid 2.7k to the agents for finding a sponsor. Without a sponsor, they cannot come to singapore so it looks like there are great demand for sponsors. Being a sponsor, you are responsible for the repartriation cost and any person caught putting false info in the application forms can be prosecuted, so I just wonder if immigration will approve sponsors who are just friends with the applicants.
OIC thanks for sharing.....the ones i know of are the monthly extensions of SVP......heard the PRCs say its few hundred per month.......even know of agents providing service of visa runs to them

[shroom]

One of my bro got quite close to a PRC whom is doing FL massage. Than recently that gal ask my fren to help her fren by becoming her guarantor when she come to spore.

Just want to find out from bros here are there any implication(s) if we become the guarantor of a PRC whom is coming over here to work as a FL either as a massager or massager with FJ?

Thanks


He better be sure he can afford the repercussions that follows should that PRC get into trouble or partakes in any activity he guaranteed her not to do.

The SG government is not in the habit of forgiving or giving discounts :)

Being black-listed in SG by one government department usually will bring about a black listing by other government departments as well and if that PRC was doing something illegal and they suspect you were involved too, you can be sure the tax office will be doing some major probing on you.

Being a guarantor like everyone else has said is generally not a good idea. Personally the only one I would ever be a guarantor to is my parents or legally married spouse.

Even a sibling I'd be wary of doing so as normally if one requires a guarantor then chances are they are not fit to be doing such a thing in the 1st place.

[84gunner]

不做中，不做保，不做媒人，三代好

[kiko]

Never try to be a PRC's guarantor, all bros here dont. beacause u never know what they do in singapore, you cannot control them the whole 24 hours.

[XueJing]

Haha, PRC's guarantor ??? Answer is obvious, must say out meh ?

[~|@|~]

in singapore, it is better to keep your name clean so don't take such risks for someone you do not even know very well ;)

[Sboobs_lover]

Some PRC girls need to place deposit first but some do not need. Those who need to place the deposit they are in thousands and if the girl get caught or overstayed u can kiss goodbye to ur $$$ n ur name is blacklisted in ICA.
If u dun need to place deposit then if the girl get caught, then u only get blacklisted.

Sponsoring is a serious matter if the girl is FL or WL. Anyway if u wan to sponsor, normally the price for those who dun need to pay deposit is $800 - $1000 for social visit, normally a month.

Who up me? Who up me? Pls leave ur name.....:)

[Sboobs_lover]

Speaking from your experience? :p

No No No, my name is clean.....hahaha.....

[dirtymonk82]

Damn, my fren sign on the dotted line. Now he is justing waiting for ICA to send him the form and to pay $1k as deposit.

[ahpaul25]

Damn, my fren sign on the dotted line. Now he is justing waiting for ICA to send him the form and to pay $1k as deposit.

Haiya....still ok, as long yr frd did not send the form, bluff those PRC, say yr frd submit the form liao....have to wait 3days, then lastly say, VISA NOT APPROVED. :)

[D.o.P]

Wish your friend all the best! It is like a gamble. Young people like him like to take high risk.

[AlanPHD]

Don't want to be mean but being a guarantor is like digging your own grave.:p

[hornyclown]

hmm bros here.... u all keep saying not to be PRC's guarantor but never really clearly state whats the implications. Other than the ones listed below if the PRC get caught what other risks is the guarantor in ?

Implications

Blacklisted in ICA's list
Risk of not getting back the deposit
Risk of going to jail or being fined

[Soul_Reaper]

hmm bros here.... u all keep saying not to be PRC's guarantor but never really clearly state whats the implications. Other than the ones listed below if the PRC get caught what other risks is the guarantor in ?

Implications

Blacklisted in ICA's list
Risk of not getting back the deposit
Risk of going to jail or being fined

When kenna caught... she turn around and say you her OKT / agent / kenna tricked to come SG... etc.

[Booker]

When kenna caught... she turn around and say you her OKT / agent / kenna tricked to come SG... etc.

Wau lao eh... Like that win liao lor...

好心没好报

But I guess it's normal right, to get away from trouble... anything goes eh.

[Ducati Corse]

Damn, my fren sign on the dotted line. Now he is justing waiting for ICA to send him the form and to pay $1k as deposit.

Good luck to your friend. Some more have to have 1k deposut some more. Can he change his mind now ??!!?? and revoke his guarantorship ? should be able to right ?

[sammyboyfor]

Good luck to your friend. Some more have to have 1k deposut some more. Can he change his mind now ??!!?? and revoke his guarantorship ? should be able to right ?

I now know why Singapore is such a fucked up country. It's full of idiots that's why. :rolleyes:

[Ducati Corse]

I now know why Singapore is such a fucked up country. It's full of idiots that's why. :rolleyes:

Err, boss u not scold me right ?? I only ask if he can revoke his guarantee le.

[Shawn Koh]

I now know why Singapore is such a fucked up country. It's full of idiots that's why.

I fully support your statements, not only dealing with foreigners but own locals too.

Sg men do not have the arts in choosing wife :rolleyes::confused::eek::rolleyes:

[ahpaul25]

I fully support your statements, not only dealing with foreigners but own locals too.

Sg men do not have the arts in choosing wife :confused::eek::rolleyes:

That's why, singaporean still GREEN ma....any tips to highlight us, master...:D

[colins]

Some OKTs (if not all) actually use Tua Peh Gongs to act as guarantors for the girls they bring in. They are probably paid up to a thousand bucks but if something happens, they are easily disposed. These are usually old men who cant make a good living anymore, so just sell their clean 'record' to earn them a meal.

Nobody can blame your friend if he happens to fall into this category, whether in age or intellect.

[Heart Break Kid]

Some OKTs (if not all) actually use Tua Peh Gongs to act as guarantors for the girls they bring in. They are probably paid up to a thousand bucks but if something happens, they are easily disposed. These are usually old men who cant make a good living anymore, so just sell their clean 'record' to earn them a meal.

Nobody can blame your friend if he happens to fall into this category, whether in age or intellect.

Our society is getting more & more messy old men doing such things for a meal... graduates becoming social escorts for fast money :o:(:o:(

[colins]

Actually if you look at it from the outside, singapore has never been a city with great diversity. We may need the spirit of oneness when we're building up the nation, but now that has become useless as individualism serves better reward.

If you think this is messy, you should visit hongkong, we've not even reached their 50s. Yet there exist order amongst the mess, though I think lots of people think that the 'order' here is represented by law, I believe its the threshold to the ability to take risk. Everybody wants to earn money, but the only fairness is that everybody is only given one chance to perform badly.

[dirtymonk82]

Some OKTs (if not all) actually use Tua Peh Gongs to act as guarantors for the girls they bring in. They are probably paid up to a thousand bucks but if something happens, they are easily disposed. These are usually old men who cant make a good living anymore, so just sell their clean 'record' to earn them a meal.

Nobody can blame your friend if he happens to fall into this category, whether in age or intellect.

My fren is in his middle twenties, in a good company. Now can only wish him luck :o

[Aurors]

Haha this things do happen. No matter how careful how strong your opinion about this WLs, once the 'right' one comes along, you might go crazy and willing to do anything. I read one ktv cheongster bro here, keep saying fuck and forget, now he admit he tio 'sock' tio by this PRC gal, donno how ...

[colins]

hopefully he can learn from it even if he is lucky enough to pull this off without any incident.

[manipulator]

Love is blind , once kena biten .... very difficult to shrug it off .... most times man willing to forgive certain wrongs by gals by then .,...

[colins]

bro manipulator, how very true is your statement. many time i suffered tha:rolleyes

[aihoannil]

Yes, once a man love a gal, his eyes will become clouded. Sometimes even if he finds out that she is sleeping with somebody else, all is forgiven. But the problem is this will surface in future ... causing strain on relationship. So advice to bro is better think carefully, things you are willing to forgive now may become stumbling blocks later.

[dirtymonk82]

Sometime lust is blind also :D

[bochi]

Haha lust is blind for sure .... as long as chabor chio ,... :D

[Booker]

No wonder last time in ITE, my fren keep on saything this hokkien/cantonese phrase (sorry don't know how to type out in cantonese, direct translation)

Becos of pussy, forget the country , becos of woman fight china.



:D

[sexytoy.com.sg]

Some OKTs (if not all) actually use Tua Peh Gongs to act as guarantors for the girls they bring in. They are probably paid up to a thousand bucks but if something happens, they are easily disposed. These are usually old men who cant make a good living anymore, so just sell their clean 'record' to earn them a meal.

Nobody can blame your friend if he happens to fall into this category, whether in age or intellect.

agreed. sometimes the offer may look very tempting when you are in their shoes. Maybe the perks for those old man who can't even afford proper living to get free BJ, FJ and $$$. :p

[colins]

This is SunTzu art of war (14th) at work, borrowing the corpse and returning it to life. Chinese are experts tacticians, really must give it to them.

A few cases I have heard also involves fake marriages. Once the girl and the rickery old men go register for ROM, the girl gets free stay till their ROM date, which is like 3 months or something. They'll go postpone the ROM date to re-extend the girl's stay in sg. Finally cancel it before ROM when the wallets are full. Girl then go home to China with a big smile and the man got paid monthly wage.

I think some of such marriages actually got registered as well, and ICA did conduct checks on suspicious (and of cos 'obviously less influential' old men) marriages by going to the place of stay and ask the man for the name and particulars of the girl. If the girl stays out all the time or if the man is too senile to remember the details, the girl will be hurl up for questioning and the man becomes a suspect for a pimp. As usual, the man gets paid monthly for taking such risk and being stressed out academically.

[孙子兵法]

This is SunTzu art of war (14th) at work, borrowing the corpse and returning it to life. Chinese are experts tacticians, really must give it to them.



keep up the good work,you are not far from Success ;)

[sex21]

I love to fuck PRC but will never be their guarantor. :D

[Mai Hai]

This topic is a moot point.
My thinking is

NEVER BE A GUARANTOR .... even if it is to relatives, not to mention PRCs.
Some say money is the root of all evil, which of course it is to a certain extent, money destroys even siblings relationship ... waht more we are talking about PRCs somebody who has at least 95% chance of scooting off once they have siphoned enough juice out of the 'carrot head' ... haiz, whatever it is, dont ask for trouble, it is not worth it.

[sean69]

My fren is in his middle twenties, in a good company. Now can only wish him luck :o

bro.. if he is really your fren, punch him and tell him to wake up!!! why on earth you want to let your fren sponsor or be a guarantor for a PRC (or any other nationality) FL masseur who is here not for legal business???

if my fren is contemplating doing something that will get him into problems, i will give him a good scolding at the risk of souring the relationship... that is what real frens do!!!

just my 2 bytes of bandwidth...

[sarcasm]

I think giving abot of dissuading advice is called for from DirtyMonk to his friend .. else maybe next time his friend will blame him too for not saying ...

[Heart Break Kid]

If she pregnant with my baby :D and we are planning for real marriage then only I will consider to be her social visit sponsor.. :D

In fact a lot of PRC whores keep asking mi to be their guarantor & some even offer cash :eek: or sex :confused: transanctions.

[F O R C E]

I suppose if going to get married no choice, but that I really hope bros dont get into that situation ... so many are just to get the PR and then bye bye ..

[Heart Break Kid]

I suppose if going to get married no choice, but that I really hope bros dont get into that situation ... so many are just to get the PR and then bye bye ..

bok (bet) heng sway ones ... every country got good & evil people :cool::cool:

[colins]

Just got one who asked me 10 minutes ago, she's now in KL and wanting to come singapore to visit (not as WL though). Bro TS is your friend still interested?

[F O R C E]

bok (bet) heng sway ones ... every country got good & evil people :cool::cool:

Agree, but for PRC, sway %age higher leh tat what I think

[Heart Break Kid]

Agree, but for PRC, sway %age higher leh tat what I think

Disagree...maybe you have not meet any of the sway lang from other nationalities.

[sean69]

Just got one who asked me 10 minutes ago, she's now in KL and wanting to come singapore to visit (not as WL though). Bro TS is your friend still interested?

er.. i dun think TS's fren is volunteering his service to sponsor PRC.. TS's fren got his own PRC to sponsor...

[uiop]

er.. i dun think TS's fren is volunteering his service to sponsor PRC.. TS's fren got his own PRC to sponsor...

No offenced to those who sponsor them.They be wasting time,money,feeling worse even life :eek:

[colins]

haha...just kidding dude, after all this talk abt the stupidity of being a guarantor, if still want to drag someone into it, will kenna lightning strike.

[dirtymonk82]

bro.. if he is really your fren, punch him and tell him to wake up!!! why on earth you want to let your fren sponsor or be a guarantor for a PRC (or any other nationality) FL masseur who is here not for legal business???

if my fren is contemplating doing something that will get him into problems, i will give him a good scolding at the risk of souring the relationship... that is what real frens do!!!

just my 2 bytes of bandwidth...

That why i start this thread so that he can read all view of the bros here himself

[uiop]

That why i start this thread so that he can read all view of the bros here himself

No use,Love is blind.They won't understand until they see the PRC are going bed with other men or all the money have been cheat by them.They must feel,go thru the all process before they are graduate :D

[Heart Break Kid]

No use,Love is blind.They won't understand until they see the PRC are going bed with other men or all the money have been cheat by them.They must feel,go thru the all process before they are graduate

S'pore & Msia women can also cheat their men feeling & money :rolleyes:

Your statements is biased & unfair.

Not just PRC women.. nevertheless we must exercise cautions against those evil intention women. :mad::mad:

[kiko]

Bro:

I never hear of singapore men cheat by spore men and malaysia gals. Only cases out in newpaper that PRC cheat spore men, married then run away with their money back to china. Basic principle/: never trust and in love with Massage and KTV PRC gals.

[kiko]

Bros:

You never know what these PRC gals do behind your back. You cant guard her 24 hrs. So better not be their guarantor.

[obnoxious]

Never never be guarantor .... for whatever reasons for whoever ...

[uiop]

S'pore & Msia women can also cheat their men feeling & money

Your statements is biased & unfair.

Not just PRC women.. nevertheless we must exercise cautions against those evil intention women.

Amongst the 3,PRC is at the top of the table :D :D

[Heart Break Kid]

Amongst the 3,PRC is at the top of the table

Totally disagree... when you get play out by those fark up S'pore & Msia women then you will compare all these people fairly :rolleyes::rolleyes: